Time to Move Beyond MGTOW

http://dapook.blogspot.com.au/2008/03/time-to-move-beyond-mgtow.html

There is something very wrong with MGTOW. Instead of talking about 'men going their own way', we see...

-Anti-Americanism (or other rants against one's mother country)
-Declarations of Chicken Little economic/social/cultural collapse.
-Religious screeds against a particular religion or against all religions.
-Conspiracy theories.
-Evangelizing the 'Deck-Stacked-Against-Us-Have-No-Hope' view of society (which is unproductive)
-Evangelizing that one ought to live like a Mexican...
-...or another country...
-Forums become a 'Yes!' echo chamber. There is no discussion, just rants filled with yes-men.

These 'elements' are well known but ignored because of the 'good things' that do come out. We should just shrug off these things and compromise with them. Well, there is one problem.

When food and poison compromise, which is the victor? It is the poison. Eating it may be sustaining... for the short term... but your body fills up with these poison toxins. You begin to lose your ambition, your passion, and generally become filled with bitterness.

I have wondered how this is occurring. It is not uncommon. Many 'movements' somehow get filled with negative filled people with anger issues and other wackos. But not all movements. So how did MGTOW become a container for this garbage?

The answer is that MGTOW is founded on a negative itself: avoidance of woman. This has caused blanket rants against women. "But many of these rants are accurate, Pook!" So what? A farmer can rant all day about the unfairness of frost, but that will not get him anywhere. There is no cosmic justice out there. The world is what it is and its better to live in it that in a hyper-reality.

Perhaps this will hit more to the point. How many years has MGTOW existed? And what has changed since then? Really, nothing has changed at all.

But I have to wonder why no one in MGTOW can keep to the subject. Pick any random thread and you will find someone start going off the reservation of a speech against a religion or another unasked for soapbox sermon on some oddball subject. Often, many will randomly insert his "brilliant" assertion that civilization will collapse in ten years.

MGTOW is based on the belief that men have made mistakes (which should be spared making mistakes). These mistakes can include marriage, being nice guy, being worshipful to women, and so on. All these mistakes have a common theme: egotism. When the man got married, he was so sure he was doing the right thing and the naysayers were all jealous villains.

Since so many join MGTOW based on being wrong in the past, why does everyone act like they are right all the time? It is amazing! The egotism never died. It just shifted into new forms. This would explain why someone can't keep to the subject of MGTOW and instead must start bashing a religion, bashing a country, or bashing something else. One can be right on something and be wrong on other things. But MGTOW do not see that. They act like they have suddenly become right on everything (so they become vocal on it).

If we were wrong in the past, and it damaged our lives (such as getting married to a fiend), why do we strut around as if we have such 'wisdom'? If we were so wrong once, we could be wrong again. Yet, this reservation is nowhere to be found in MGTOW. Every man has his own pet theories. The dogs slip their leash and begin to ravage the good content.

To be honest, I don't see many happy MGTOW. There are no celebrations about being 'free' but complaining about... something. Trust me; celebrations and good cheer are far more effective and contagious than "being right all the time".

In normal society, people do not like being around someone 'right all the time'. Even if they are right, they are downright annoying. People prefer light-hearted, good cheered fun. When I think of MGTOW, 'good cheer' is the last to come to mind. MGTOW isn't about being alive as it is about escaping pain.

For as much as we mock feminists for being negative, for getting with women to talk bad about men, it is becoming more and more clear that MGTOW is becoming more like the mirror image. Behavior by behavior, a MGTOW male acts very similar to a feminist in lifestyle and habit. You begin to live alone, have meetings with guys to 'talk bad about women' (to ease existential pains), and write bad essays.

I think it is becoming clear that marriage and children is a natural longing in not just women but men as well. Nature did not intend gender avoidance. I believe generally everyone is repelled by the negative pessimistic tone found on MGTOW. However, people return consistently for a dose of the poison to ease the existential pain (caused by the natural longing of wife and children which is found in every culture and time). Once convinced by the rantings that women are more painful than pleasurable, the male goes off semi-satisfied. But, alas, the natural longing creeps up again causing the male to return.


why, it must be requited. I hear how I am censured:
they say I will bear myself proudly, if I perceive
the love come from her; they say too that she will
rather die than give any sign of affection. I did
never think to marry: I must not seem proud: happy
are they that hear their detractions and can put
them to mending. They say the lady is fair; 'tis a
truth, I can bear them witness; and virtuous; 'tis
so, I cannot reprove it; and wise, but for loving
me; by my troth, it is no addition to her wit, nor
no great argument of her folly, for I will be
horribly in love with her. I may chance have some
odd quirks and remnants of wit broken on me,
because I have railed so long against marriage: but
doth not the appetite alter? a man loves the meat
in his youth that he cannot endure in his age.
Shall quips and sentences and these paper bullets of
the brain awe a man from the career of his humour?
No, the world must be peopled. When I said I would
die a bachelor, I did not think I should live till I
were married.-"Much Ado About Nothing", Shakespeare

MGTOW is equally damned.

Bad Boys, Nice Guys and Real Men™

For years, I tried to hammer a square peg into a round hole by falling for the feminist brainwashing that "you need to get in touch with your emotions" etc. Has it ever occurred to women that a man is indifferent because he actually feels indifferent? Maybe he has no need or desire to talk about emotions and the reason why nice guys do is because they base all their self worth on how women perceive them.

Unfortunately the missing piece of the puzzle is that nice guys only take into account what women actually state, not their actions. Now the other problem is swinging over to the other end of the spectrum and replacing the lost piece of the puzzle with trying to ACT tough, aloof and indifferent. This will not work in the long term and will only continue the negativity because the root of the problem has not been dealt with. Acting like a bad boy is still supplicating to women in a different but equally disempowering sense as is trying to be a nice guy.

The solution is simple, we men must pull back the power we give to women and focus on ourselves, for ourselves, not women. We need to find out how we really "feel" when we no longer value ourselves based on how successful we are in attracting women.

THIS IS THE TOUGH BIT We must let go of everything we have built our identity on regarding attracting women and find out once and for all who we really are, how we really want to live our lives, based on our own values. Could it be that when we really give up disempowering ourselves that we no longer have "feelings" of depression, anxiety, low self worth etc?

Could this be the end of seeking a substitute for the masculinity that was always within us?

Could this be the path to becoming a strong confident and well-adjusted man?

Here's the dichotomy, will a man do what's best for himself, taking the risk that women may overtly show disapproval or will he continue to sell himself out by supplicating to women? Men who try to be a nice guy or a bad boy or whatever may just be reacting to their insecurity. There are many negative consequences to these actions: supplicating to women by spending vast amounts of time, money and self respect to win a few crumbs of affection is prostituting ourselves as much as risking a criminal record, our neck, and self respect, trying to impress women. The energy could be put into doing the things we want in our lives and could it possibly be, that maybe, just maybe, women, deep down, want to love and respect a man in his own right, with a strong sense of who he is, what his moral code is, what his boundaries are, and could it be that this is the very essence of what a woman ultimately wants when she says she wants a "real man".

However, it is men who must define what a "real man" is, not women and this is the very reason why he exists and why she responds to him.